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What Happens To You When You Decide To Leave Islam?
A somewhat unsurprising, yet saddening video (courtesy of memritv):
More info:
From the captions:
- The host is a Kuwaiti named Sheik Tareq Al-Sweidan.
- The guy in the funny hat is Egyptian cleric, Gamal ‘Allam.
- The plump gray-haired guy who looks like a Church of England prelate is Egyptian cleric, Gamal Al-Bana.
The audience is segregated by sex. The men are all on the left of the aisle. The women are all wearing light head-dresses and no make-up.
The question being polled by SMS amongst the viewers was: “What is the best way to deal with apostates who convert from Islam?”
There were three choices.
- 1. Through dialogue only
- 2. Kill them
- 3. Leave it up to the legal system
The final SMS totals are 40% dialogue only, 51% kill them, 9% leave it up to the legal system. This is different from the earlier stages of polling, before the clerics spoke, when “through dialogue only” had a significant lead (46%/38%).
The host says at the beginning, introducing the question “You’ve heard one opinion…”, which suggests that this debate followed a lecture of the showing of an opinion piece on film or video, which is not in this clip.
In the debate, the following question is put to the audience:
Does a Muslim have the liberty to change his religion or not?
Two young women are asked for their opinions. They are agreed that, if on discussion a Muslim is still adamant in rejecting Islam, he should be declared an Infidel.
Gamal ‘Allam then quotes Sunni authorities on excommunication. You can be excommunicated for denying Islam, forbidding something that is “irrefutably permitted” by the Koran (such as polygamy, which is banned in some Muslim countries), consciously setting your own law up as better than the law of the Koran, or setting yourself up (like Pharaoh) as an object of worship. You can be excommunicated for setting yourself up as the son of God, or cursing God, his Messenger (which includes Muhammad, Moses, etc) or the Koran, mocking the Prophet’s family, mocks Muslims because of the practices of the religion. He is clear that such people are infidels.
By the time Gamal ‘Allam is finished, the SMS poll is at 40% through dialogue, 46% kill them.
Gamal Al-Bana’s belief is “Whoever says ‘There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah’, is a Muslim. End of discussion.” It’s not for us to delve into the details, it’s a matter for Allah.
The results of the audience poll were that 24% thought it a Muslim had the liberty to change his religion, then rest thought he didn’t.
A male member of the audience goes into some detail on his uncompromising belief that a Muslim should have the opportunity to change his belief, only in the knowledge that the price is death.
Gamal Al-Bana’s gets the floor again. He responds to the audience opinion by saying that the result is “very saddening” and “indicates a lack of knowledge regarding the essence of Islam, which is faith and liberty. If belief is not based on awareness and conviction, it is worthless.” He quotes the Koran: “If it had been thy Lord’s will, they would all have believed.” He maintains that “every Muslim has the right to change his religion as much as he likes, and nobody is allowed to stand in his way, because this is a question of freedom of conscience, and it is fobidden to intervene in matters of people’s conscience.”
He addresses the audience directly: “That is sad. Most of you are young and you do not believe in freedom.”
Gamal ‘Allam speaks. “I’d lke to salute our young men and women for their natural and healthy belief and their religious zeal.” He chides Gamal Al-Bana for calling, not for freedom of thought, but for “freedom of heresy.” In reply, Gamal Al-Bana quotes the Koran: “Let him who wants believe. Let him who wants reject.” (18:29, The Cave)
The host debates the result with Gamal ‘Allam, who says that those who don’t believe Islam, “the only reasonable and convincing religion”, are wrong in the head and they should either go to a mental asylum or their heads should be removed before they infect somebody else. The host raises the example of Salman Rushdie, “who became an apostate. Good riddance”. He should be free to go to hell, Rushdie did not affect him (the host) no harm.
Gamal Al-Bana is shown reiterating: “I believe that the freedom of thought and belief is absolute, because this freedom of thought leads to freedom of political opposition, which established democracy and got rid of kings and tyranny. it also led to freedom of the sciences, which has led progress, and freedom of justics, which has led to fair treatment for laborers and women. Freedom of thought is indivisible, and the most important element of freedom is one belief, because it has to do with one’s conscience. Therefore it cannot be restricted in any way.”
When you consider that the guy is speaking in Saudi Arabia, before a hostile audience, I salute his cojones.
More about Al-Bana here. He is a bit of a maverick, and generally opposes the clerics (such as the likes of Gamal ‘Allam). Notice that he generally opposed ‘Allam with a direct quote from the Koran. In his turn, ‘Allam is quoting the Sunnah.